Personal Growth and the Expansion of EXIT Realty with CEO Tami Bonnell

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The real estate industry has helped create some of the most successful business people in the world, but that’s not the case for every agent and broker. Financial planning is important for everyone, but especially for the volatile nature of real estate professionals and the ebbs and flows of the business.

Tami Bonnell, CEO of EXIT Realty, breaks down the importance of long term planning in real estate and how thinking about tomorrow will help you make the right decisions today.

TRANSCRIPT

Hi everybody. And welcome to brokerage insider the podcast where we interview the leaders in real estate and technology. I’m your host, Eric Stegemann and I’m the CEO of TRIBUS. We’re one of the largest independent prop tech companies in real estate and provider of custom brokerage technology to medium and large sized brokerages in the United States, Canada, and even around the world.

Now on this week’s episode, we have Tammy Bucknell. Tammy is the CEO of EXIT Realty Corp International. Tammy started. With EXIT as a regional owner, then moved over into running things at EXIT as a VP, then president. And now she’s been CEO since 2012. So Tammy, thanks for joining us today. I’m really happy to be here.

So I’m really excited to chat because there’s a few topics here that I know that are important to you. That I’d love to get your take on. But I want to step back for just a second, because one of the things that I’ve found in, in interviewing all of our guests for the show is they always have a really good story of how they got to where they got to.

So why don’t you tell me how you got to start in residential real estate and then how you went through those paths that I just mentioned, and now being the CEO of EXIT. Okay. Probably not that exciting of a story, but you know, I. Actually started my first business when I was 11 and I started cleaning houses.

And I cleaned site for builders because I could be dropped off in a subdivision and go from house to house. And you know, work ethic was a real strong thing in our family. So every Saturday and Sunday, that’s what I did. And I actually was scraping windows, sitting inside a window, scraping the windows from the paint and a realtor and a builder were in the house.

With the buyers that were relocating and they were doing the final walkthrough and the wall between the kitchen and the dining room was actually supposed to be more of an open concept. And it wasn’t. And so the buyers came in all upset that it was yelling and screaming. I’m sitting in the windows thing, please make me invisible.

And But when they slammed their way out of the door, the builder put his fist through the wall. And I jumped through the window and said I think you broke your hand. And he said, drive me to the hospital. I had lied about my age and I drove him to the hospital and he did break his hand and he had a cast put on.

And then when I was driving him back in, my dad was pulling back up to pick me up and I ended up grounded for driving and On the way back, he was just complaining about how realtors were never getting it right with new construction. And I was, how hard is it? You want White, you want off White, you paint a picture for somebody, you know, something pretty similar to that.

And he said, you think you can sell houses? And I said, absolutely. And he said, good start Saturday. So I got $500 a house starting at 13 years old. And I looked older than my age. So I think that’s what happened, but I thought real estate was really disorganized. And so I never really thought that I would be in it for a living and I focused on finance and I went to work for a company.

In the South Merrill Lynch and it turned out to be those, both the timeframe that they were acquiring real estate companies. And I hated being locked up in a cubicle and turned out I had a knack for doing acquisitions and that’s how I started. And then I was prior to coming to EXIT. I was instrumental in building three major brands.

I taught. Mergers and acquisitions. I acquired real estate companies for them and I sold franchises for them. So really the majority of my career has been in the backroom or at least 30 plus years has been in the backroom focused on doing mergers and acquisitions, selling franchises, and helping those companies to grow.

Well, that’s a, I personally think that’s a very interesting story of how you got started in the space, because what I find is that everybody has some sort of person personal connection. You know, we, we interviewed Joan doctor that the president of Fox & Roach realtors a few weeks back, and she had a really bad experience with the transaction and her buying her first house.

And. And we ha we’ve had other people that have just had these exact same sorts of situations that have, would have got them into the industry. So I always love hearing, you know, a little about where you started and what was that first first kind of moment that said that you’re there, because what I find is that, you know, true leaders in the space, they’re kind of all what I refer to as real estate lifers.

Right. So, so, you know, you have decades of experience in the space and now you’re running EXIT. So, you know, let’s talk about EXIT for just a second. Okay. What, you know, what’s what is the brand or what does EXIT stand for? Well, you know, we were actually there’s a very unique differentiator in our company in the fact that we have, we provide residual income.

So kind of the Sam Walton theory that he rewarded people for the percentage of the company, they helped build. That is our theory. Sam created more millionaires than anyone in the history of businesses. From doing that. And we thought Sam was right, but in real estate, we don’t sell lawnmowers and coffee pots.

Right. We sell real estate. So the assets of a real estate company are their agents. And so if we treat the agents incredibly well, we’ll do really well. This entire company was built on human potential, but the residual component is that unfair, competitive advantage of having the opportunity to every person that gets introduced into the company.

They have to be it’s by invitation only. So if I introduce an agent into this organization, I received the equivalent of 10% of the gross commission up to $10,000 a year, every year, for as long as that person is with the company, as good as that is when I retire benefits like real people with real jobs, I make 7% of that income, even in retirement.

The other 3% goes to the broker because we want the broker to have a balanced and they even took it a step further and thought about my family. And when I die, my beneficiary. Half of that makes 5%. Even after I’m gone, the balance goes to the brokerage. So we’ve had opportunities now where people have gone into retirement for getting going on maternity leave and they’ve had steady, consistent income they’ve had.

So they’ve been able to stay home longer. They’ve had hips replaced. They’ve been able to be with parents while they transitioned. It’s convertible. So once they were through whatever they were going through, they can come back in. Once their seventh transactions passes up to eight, they can come back into the 10%.

So it’s convertible, it’s portable. I relocate my significant other, gets a new job somewhere else. And I relocate with them. I go into an EXIT office there and my benefits follow me like real people with real jobs. So it gives people cash between paychecks. It gives them a vested interest in the company and that makes them feel like they have.

Ownership. You know, if you and I went to a really nice restaurant for dinner tonight, and the waiter that waited on us had a vested interest in the restaurant, how much better does that serve us for sure. Much better. Right, right. And so that’s really what ends up happening in the offices is we create this culture where everybody works better together as a team.

It’s now in my best interest, if I’m making $150,000 a year, it’s in my best interest to teach you how to do better, because as you do better, I do better. And who learns more the teacher or the student. So I actually get better at my job by helping you. And we found that that’s created an unbelievable family culture.

But it’s gone a lot further than that on human potential because people growing in an environment where they feel safe, where they feel trust. And so that has made them. Really grow within the boundaries of the office. And we have all the other things that, you know, other franchises and brands have.

Number one, they want leadership. So we have boots on the ground, regional owners in each individual, state and province. And we’re very selective about introducing brokerages into the company. Number two, they want education. So. We provide education from every single angle. Now I just got my license.

What do I do all the way to the consummate professional, making millions of dollars, dollars webinars tech and I’s live interactive, total immersion, so they can learn the best way that they learn. They want help with technology. So we actually have a technology specialist. My statement is always from Tony Robbins information without implementation equals poverty.

Right. And that’s the biggest problem in technology is user error. So. We have single entry and we have a technology specialist. She speaks English, Spanish and technology, and she teaches the brokers and the agents, not only how to utilize EXITs tools and how to monetize so that they can grow their business.

But she always remembers that it’s the human behind the transaction. It’s the human behind the device. So. She teaches them how to utilize it, to maximize their business. Number four, they want help with the details. And that’s why we have single entry, very user-friendly so that they can get that help, that they need.

Number five, they want a marketing program they can track. So our technology is very intuitive. Number six, they want a good image. So are focused on image is that opportunity to. Really be the smartest company and having that image of everybody working in this together, right. That vested interest mentality and number seven, they want skin in the game.

We interviewed people making $250,000 a year or better from all faiths. What do you like? What don’t you like and what would you like to see? And that was the top seven things they wanted. And obviously that skin in the game of having a vested interest, it’s kind of like that agent has their shoulder on the rock.

Just like the broker so that they’re working. It’s not one in charge. They’re working together as a team more than anything else. And that’s worked very well for us as a. The foundation for our company. Yeah. It sure seems like it. And I think the technology person that you’re referring to, I’m assuming that is that a net.

And that Anthony, I love it. I’ve known her now for 10 plus years, I think. And, and she’s just a phenomenal resource that you guys have over there and such a good connector and, and, and helping train and educate people. And so, you know, out of, out of all of those points that you just went over, obviously I think, you know, that one of the things that really.

Is that, there’s the point that I feel like EXIT has pushed for 20 years. And, and you know, I’ve, I’ve seen EXITs ads starting in a realtor magazine when I first started selling real estate 20 something years ago about these residuals. And so I guess that begs the follow up question is it as if you do the math in it, it seems like.

The total payout that EXIT might have to make on a single transaction could potentially get over a hundred percent. Am I understanding that correctly? Or am I maybe missing something? No. The agent has the ability to earn more than a hundred percent by introducing people into the company because with whatever their, their split is.

Right. If they’re receiving the equivalent of 10% off the top, And they, you know, we teach them and have them focus on introducing three people a year into the company. There’s some that do, you know, don’t introduce anybody. They just want to listen to themselves. And there’s some that introduced several people into the company.

So it gives them the ability to earn more than a hundred percent. But it comes off the top that 10%, and it doesn’t come out of the agent’s portion and it gets sent up to EXIT International and then we pay it back. Down to the individual that introduced that person into the company. I mean, it seems like there’s some people that EXIT that their sole focus is on recruiting.

So inter do you guys ever have that problem? And I know I’ve heard this around exp a lot over the last two years is do you guys ever have that problem where people feel a little pushy, as far as the recruiting side of things go and you have to back them off because of how good your, your residuals are.

You know what? We created this culture that it’s people that really love helping other people, it’s really a, a unique foundation. It’s much more empathy oriented than ego driven. So I don’t find very many of our people that are pushy. We teach them that it’s about building a relationship. It’s not hunting people down.

Right. It’s truly about building a relationship in the ordinary course of business. We’re doing a transaction together and I love the way you work. And I think that you’ll do better in our company because our broker has the uncanny knack of. Helping get more and better out of you. And it’s really that kind of simple introduction.

It’s not hunting people down. We do have people that work solely as recruiters that work in individual real estate, state offices. But that would be the same in any company, right. That they have a manager or they have a recruiter. There are people that do that, and that helps them build on a faster pace.

But most often it’s. In the ordinary course of doing a transaction that they got along really well. You know, maybe the other agent mentioned that they’re not satisfied where they are, or they’re not getting any education where they are or something that. Gave them an opening to have a conversation, but I always tell them, it’s just a conversation you want to make sure it’s people that you really want to work with because that’s a representation of who you are, right.

If the people that are within your office but sure from time to time, there’s a conversation that you should have with someone. If they get to that point, cause that’s not really how this was built. It was built to build a relationship, just like the real estate industry as a whole, right. Is a relationship.

Driven business. And the more you get to know that person for me personally, I’ve broken some world records in sales, and I can tell you that it’s the number one reason is because I did more homework on the person than I even did on the product. Right. And. Giving somebody what they really want. And so I always say, I’m not even going out and selling anything today.

I’m going and having a conversation. I’m going to go add value to people’s lives. And if we find a common ground and our business philosophies match, then they’ll end up being coming part of the company. But that doesn’t happen every day. Right. It happens when those things match, but if I do enough homework, so I find out what’s really important to you.

I’m probably going to be in front of the right people more often than not. Yeah, that’s, that’s definitely the case. And, and, you know, I’ve to be very clear, I’ve never seen anybody complain about EXIT, getting too pushy with, with presenting the opportunity to join. And I know there’s some places where exp agents, I, I feel like I get intimidated because I’m listed in the real estate industry.

I still get. Probably, I don’t know, in an average month, 10 or 15 people that are just randomly reaching out to me, based upon my licensing, based upon my LinkedIn profile that says I’m in real estate that say, Oh, you should come join us. And it, it can get a little overwhelming at times. And I I’ve told Glen their CEO that it, you know, at some point that you gotta be careful on this because it can present a negative connotation to the brand.

If somebody gets a little too pushy and I don’t feel like I’ve ever had that. At EXIT, although I have had people at EXIT reach out and suggest that I you know, that I, that I would put my license with them. And I still don’t, I don’t have it still to this day, but I did for a long time up until a couple of years ago.

And, and. You know, I want to go back to something else you said that I think is so vital there, which is you’re talking about. When you talk to the other agent that will, you’d be considered a recruiting you’re, you’re sitting there and asking them about what they’re not getting at their brokerage.

And one of the things you said there, and if you notice Tammy, didn’t say a lot about the necessarily the commission. She talked about support and training and everything like that. And I tried this, we did a study two or three years ago now. And we found out the number one, two, and three things that an agent left a brokerage for, none of them were commissioned.

In fact, number one was training and support. Number two is technology, which we’ll get into in a second. But, but certainly training and support. So, you know, I know you’re big on personal development and that’s a big thing, and I’m going to, I definitely want to dive into that a little bit more with you.

So what are some ways specifically that EXIT helps their agents get the best training and support? Well, we have trainers that are specific to EXITs. We have and they’re called mindset trainers for a reason. And so it’s everything from mindset, literally the power of your subconscious mind controlling what you think all the way to focusing on good health during the pandemic.

We actually had people teaching accurate. Totally. You know, when we first launched accurate, totally teaching yoga ways for stress relief, but we have everything from. Truly with our trainers. I just got my license now, what do I do all the way to the content, but professional teaching them how to be more effective business people, right?

Because they’re, they get to a certain level. So we have International trainers that are part of our system. We actually have a partnership with the Fenian company so that they, we have a tremendous amount of our people that have been trained by the FINI, but our specific trainers that are. EXIT mindset trainers.

A lot of them also coach and some of them coach specifically to agents and some of them coach specifically to brokers. And it really kind of depends on where their levels at. And we try and match up with where they’re at, right? I’ve got to meet you where you are. And so that’s why we have such a variety of mindset trainers that are specific to our company because we want to meet them where they are, whether that’s.

You know, just get me into the right habits. I just got my license or somebody that’s, we just need to make them more effective with their time and more effective with their money and more effective with their marketing, more effective with their technology so that they are growing because people.

Really loves the opportunity to grow and when they get stagnant, that’s when they get that’s when they get frustrated. So we put a tremendous amount of emphasis on training. We have webinars every single month for our broker owners, our agents, our administrative staff as well, because we really think that a good backup is incredibly important.

And we also have training Every month that there’s five weeks out of the month. We actually do a webinar on good health as well, because we want them to have longevity and we want them to have some form of a work-life balance. And, you know, you’re, you’re absolutely right. And that actually, you know, that work-life balance and that mental strengths kind of leads me into my next question.

And that is, I know that you’re a black belt in TaeKwonDo. And so, you know, we’re involved in that, that process of training, support, energizing agents building that mindset, you know, how much do you think that that part of your life came in to making this such an important part of EXIT? Well, I think it’s tremendous.

I think that, that the mind body connection is so important for everyone. I mean, really when you, when you have something that you really value. From a mind connection. So something that I really value that I’m really interested in and that I think is really important towards my goals, right. It matches my value system.

My, my bowls match my value system. I’m going to stay disciplined and I’m going to stay passionate. Certainly martial arts teaches a tremendous amount of self discipline and you know, It, but it’s not really just about fighting, right? It’s really about that. Having more control over your body and having more control over your thoughts and keeping that connected all the way through, but you know, not all of us grew up in necessarily healthy environments and it’s really important to get people, to have some sort of a work-life balance.

All the way through when you come to our broker-owner training, which is a week Pilon when they purchase a franchise the entire first day, that, that Monday they actually learn about themselves. Not one single thing has really spoken about real estate. It’s understanding affirmations, it’s understanding the power of their subconscious mind.

It’s understanding the way they think it’s understanding that personality profile. So by the end of the week and ongoing, a lot of people will. Come to you and say, yes, I’m better at my business because of being here. You know, I, I’m making a profit, I’m doing a terrific job as far as my business goes, but I cannot believe how great the relationships are in my family and how much better that is because of what I learned here.

You know, it seems amazing what you’re telling me here about all of this, these resources that you provide. And I guess it begs the question is so much around the conversation EXITs that I hear that when people did try to recruit me back in the day and, and so much of what I hear about the brand now is focused on residuals and income and everything like that.

Do you think that’s, that is. You know, the, the primary thing that people are discussing, or maybe just that the people that I’ve spoken with, haven’t talked about this training, because I’ll tell you from my perspective, that’s something that would have resonated heavily with me. Everything you’re talking about right now would have resonated heavily with me.

And it’s, it’s, you know, something I tend generally knew about it from talking to a net, but obviously it digging in here with your more and hearing about all these things that you guys provide. It seems like it’s not. As well-known as the residual piece. So maybe, you know, maybe it’s just me and the, and the people that I’ve spoken with, but it is it, you know, something that EXIT actively markets and says, Hey, this is a huge part of what we do here.

Yes, we do actively market it, but I think that a lot of brand new people when they’re, when they’re brand new and they haven’t had the exposure to as much of what EXIT has to offer you know, when they’re, when they’re fairly new, then they definitely concentrate on the re residuals and don’t get me wrong.

I teach the agents and focused on strongly. I want them to have true financial freedom. So for me, I want them to have it for all of the right reasons. Right. So if I know exactly what my overhead is, and this is something that everybody should do for themselves anyway. Right? True financial freedom means that all my bills are paid before I get out of bed in the morning.

And so if I wake up January one and I know that all my bills are covered for the year, it doesn’t matter whether I bought investment property. I have residual income. It doesn’t matter what that thing is, but when I get to that point, so say the average agent, their overhead for their mortgage and, you know, food and housing and everything else that they have in their life is 40 to 60,000.

Then I know that that’s how much money I want to have coming in every month. month.    Even before I go out and list and sell real estate that I want them to get to that point. So I always have them figure out what their overhead is. So now they know what that target is and whether that’s you know, working with investors, investing in real estate, investing in other things, it’s getting them to that point because once they have that level of financial freedom, it’s amazing how.

Much easier your job gets when you’re not worried about how you’re going to make the money. It’s amazing how much more joyful your job gets and how much you are in a servant leader mentality, as opposed to having, having to go sell something. So I think that’s incredibly important, but I think it’s incredibly important because then when my daughter has a play on Friday night, I don’t have to go take a listing.

I can go to replay. Right. And if I have a parent teacher conference that I don’t have to say, I’m sorry, I can’t, I can’t go. I can actually build in that flexibility in my life. And so I want them to have that work-life balance. And so part of that is part of that component is. Having that financial freedom, but the more they grow, the more they want to grow, the more people grow, the more they want to grow.

Right. That curiosity factor is unbelievable. You know, people that read regularly and they consider reading regularly a book a month, I read about 300 books a year. And because I’m an information junkie and I re I happened to read very fast and I love to read, but People that read regularly in their lifetime, make nine times as much income as people that don’t.

So why wouldn’t that be something we’d want to make sure we make a focus? We actually believe in leadership to the point that we actually have a director of leadership and we put on leadership programs all the time. So actually starting this next Thursday Bob McKinnon, who’s our director of leadership and Laurie Mueller, who is our vice president over the U S organization.

They’re going to be doing an entire series leadership course on the book, the dream manager. And they’ve gone through four so far during the pandemic of walking everybody through and teaching them to pull the most that they can out of the book. And one of the most refreshing things out of it is that it’s getting people to actually read more, even people that didn’t enjoy reading and not really enjoying it.

Yeah, and I mean, there’s a, there’s a great old line elite a, a leader as a reader. Right. And frankly, it’s privacy, something that, that changed. Me, obviously I never, I mean, I never made time for it until Steve Murray. From real trends you know, said something to me and then introduced me to a guy that was speaking at one of his events, Patrick Lencioni.

And he gave me a copy of one of his books called the five dysfunctions of a team. And I feel like it, it completely changed not only my long-term mindset of reading, but, but also that one book. Had amazing effects just on my leadership here at TRIBUS and recognizing, you know, the importance of, of being able to disagree with, with leadership, other leaders or other people in your organization.

But still, you know, knowing when the, the disagreements were healthy versus when they were unhealthy. And that has helped me move away from being a yes, man, which I think I was for the first four or five years of running the, the try this, moving away from expecting my staff to be yes, people moving to where, you know, I actively seek out and want the advice of them.

And I may not go with them every time, but I feel like I’ve put them in a position to tell me something that I didn’t know. And that’s just one book out of, you know, 50 or a hundred. And I, I haven’t read nearly as many as you do. But but certainly changed my mindset there. With regard to that. So, you know, we’ve got a lot of topics left to cover here.

I wish we could dig into that a little bit more. But I wanted to touch on a few other things about EXITs innovations. You know, obviously there was the you know, the residuals and everything like that, that you’ve done. But you know, one, one thing that I know, and I don’t know if you offered any more, but just one thing off the top of my head that I thought was so interesting.

Back 10, 12 years ago, which is you guys really focused on the concept of getting agents paid faster. So that kind of goes along with this process of making sure that people are financially sound getting agents paid faster. And I know that was something you guys really pushed on for a while in terms of same day payments.

And you guys even innovated and came up with debit cards that you gave to agents and could pay them immediately out on their debit cards, their residuals. And even potentially their, their commission income what are the innovations that EXIT is looking at from now over the next, you know, three, five years?

Well, right now we have which has helped us tremendously with COVID and I think it’s there’s bringing up, we have smart sign technology so that you can pull up in front of a house and you text eight, five, three, seven, seven, and punch in. it. And the listing comes to your phone. And so for people that are buying, they don’t have to, you know, COVID friendly at shore made it, but it’s also buyers don’t usually want to deal with a realtor until they’re really ready to buy.

Right. They looked for a long time before they are really ready to be in that buying circle. You know, they look nine or 10 months ahead of time. They start looking at. All the homes. So this gives them an opportunity to literally drive around and get the listing sent to their phone so that they can determine, you know, if I’m going to drive around and see 10 homes and maybe I just want to go in and see too, it’s definitely made it COVID friendly.

But even prior to that, it’s the convenience factor, right? They want you, when they want you, consumers want you when they want you, but they don’t want to want to all the time. It helps our agents to have control of their business because then their cell phone would be sent to the. Agents that had the listing and now they can reach out and say, I noticed you were looking at 23 Jones street.

If there’s any questions I can answer for you, let me know. We also have mobile business cards. So if you text eight five, three, seven, seven, and punch in T a M, I. And hit send, you’ll get my mobile business card sent to your phone. Now I’m in your contacts and you can reach out to me the way you prefer to reach out to me.

Right? You can text call, text, yeah. Or email or whatever way you feel is the most comfortable for you. In order to be able to reach out even social media was we have a digital marketing strategy that is helping our agents to really gain listings because they have it already prepared in advance which is helping them considerably.

We have an app. You know, the consumer wants, still wants to have a trusted advisor wants that person that’s educated, that will provide a solution, but they also want speed and transparency. And so that app for speed and transparency is really phenomenal. And that really does make a huge difference in taking things further.

Obviously we’ve definitely touched on, on residuals and right now our technology team is working. On making everything much more connected and much more intuitive so that if I have an agent that it’s connecting, it’s going to be interacting with them, helping them to do their business better. By even just being able to read them better and making suggestions, it’s kind of a, a 2.0 for us, and that’s going to be coming out this year and will really help them to.

Grow to the next level based on where they’re at right now and what it is that they’ve put in for what they have for goals and targets. And I think that’s going to be really terrific for just even the share opportunity to be able to interact on a, on a regular steady basis. So, you know, obviously there’s a lot of tech that you guys have and are, and are working on enhancing.

You know, what’s, what is the thing that’s gonna make? An EXIT agent, more powerful than open door Zillow offers or these huge players that are coming in with billions of dollars of real estate. Like what’s, what’s the thing that says, Hey, money doesn’t matter. An EXIT agent is better.

Well, I think that that’s, but that’s a, that’s a, a nerve for me beyond belief. And so money isn’t enough, right? Disruptors coming into this business, if they’re focused solely on technology and they’re not focused, skillset will beat out. Technology every day of the week, right? If I find out what it’s really important to you and I stay ahead of the curve on where the windows of opportunity are, and I can help you as a consumer.

And I find out what your real estate dreams are, and I can help you as a consumer to really Grow your you’re going to want to work with me on a regular basis. So that technology is meant to be a tool. It’s the human behind that device. It’s the human behind that transaction. And every human is different, right.

That you’re dealing with. So You know, investors will be about 10% of the business. And that’s always ongoing investors that don’t necessarily work with a realtor because they understand and some contractors and developers because they understand how the business works and they’re working with sheer numbers.

Right. So. If I’m buying enough property, I can, I can work with sheer numbers, but the average consumer really wants a trusted advisor. I don’t like those words, trusted advisor. I prefer that they really want somebody to be the solution for them. And that means that I really need to listen and find out.

What’s really important to you. I’ll give you a great example. I had a guy that was in the DC marketplace and I spoke there a few years back and he was going in and he was the fourth person going in for a listing appointment. And I said, do me a favor, Google them, friend them on Facebook and connect with them on LinkedIn.

If you have time, what do you know about him so far? And he said, I know he owns his own business and he’s in his seventies. And I said, look, I asked him where he sees himself in the next one, three, five years, asked him when he plans on. Retiring or if he even does plan on retiring ask him where, ask him why he asked you to come and do a listing appointment and what he wanted to get out of it.

And he went in and asked him the questions he was forced going in. Everyone else came in with a CMA, you know, fancy, pretty. Came in with a CMA, they didn’t ask him any personal questions. He said, you’re the first person that asked me these questions and he did want to sell his business within the next one to three years, he did want to retire.

He wanted to retire down in the Carolinas on the ocean and the reason he wanted him to come in and do a listing appointment is he wanted to know if this was the most opportune time for him to sell his house because he wanted to get the most. Money out of it, he possibly could. And he said, you know what?

I’d hold off on that for a little while. If I were you, he didn’t go in just for the juggler. I hold off a little while let’s stay in touch. You know, every couple of weeks to a month, depending on what’s going on with the market. And he not only sent them a referral and said, I’d buy the Retirement home now because waterfront there’s still only so much waterfront and waterfront steadily goes up.

I pay attention to that. He taught him short-term rentals. He did a referral for the transaction and the Carolinas and he bought five investment properties for him. And he listed the property about 15 months afterwards. Not during that timeframe. And he made $150,000 more on his property than he would have if he had listed it, then he increased the guy’s net worth by about $2.4 million.

But he also got six transactions and a referral out of it. So, which is better. For sure. For sure. And that’s the human connection? I, I was fortunate when I, when I grew up my best friend, her her dad was the COO of Edward Jones and I’ve often said that real estate in, in. The way that it works is, is going to be most successful for those that treat it like Edward Jones, not like E-Trade right.

You know what? Well, I was just going to say something to you, which I think is really that’s so spot on. So I have a Robinhood account and an acorns account, you know, you’re familiar with those, right? The little apps that you have. So I’m bored at the airport and I play with the Robin hood or acorns, and it’s 50 bucks here and 50 bucks there, but I’m not putting my estate into Robinhood or acorns.

Yep. I’m not going to do it right. I’m going to have a person that knows more about money than I do make sure that I am maximizing on every opportunity and they understand what my intent is. And I’m going to do the same thing with real estate. So it’s really easy to disrupt and be an Amazon and disrupt.

The book business, because I can have it on your doorstep tomorrow. It’s really easy to disrupt vitamins and anything else that I can have instant gratification on because it’s a small product for a small price, right? Uber going into taxis, it’s a small product for a small price, but where I’m going to raise my family and what most people have as a nest egg the majority of wealth is built by real estate.

And so. Me putting somebody in that can’t answer my questions and can’t help me grow to the next level. I’m not going to respect that person as a real estate professional. Can they disrupt some of the business? Sure. They can disrupt some of the business, but they will never be able to beat the, the skillset and the ability to stay ahead of that curve and show somebody a serious return.

I’ve got two more questions for you because we’re almost at a time here. So you know, banking on that last statement that you just made, you know, you’ve got open door, you’ve got Zillow offers, right. And there are lots of money that’s coming in for that. Do you see a place in real estate where things operate traditionally?

Where open door and Zillow offers are taking 30% of all listings and that the business stays the same. And it’s just, there’s new players that are taking on this. Or do you think that they put in a whole bunch of money? You know, let’s, let’s take the crystal ball out five years from now. Do you think that they’ve put in a whole bunch of money and at the end they say it’s just not financially viable for us to continue to do this anymore.

I wish I had that crystal ball. Right. But I, I honestly believe that I honestly believe that the majority of business will still be done and I don’t necessarily think that’s a traditional brokerage. I think it’s cause I feel like we’re very much uncola right. We’re embracing technology, but we’re just not forgetting that there’s a human behind that.

Transaction or human behind that device. You know, it’s and so you want to deal with a professional that’s on the other side, not just looking at great pictures and everything else. So I think that the key will be if they go through and focus, because we’ve already witnessed people that have lit. You know, billions of dollars on fire and technology and real estate and have not made a profit, right?

We witnessed it in so many different areas. It isn’t even funny and sooner or later, the investors want to get a return on their investment, right? Sooner or later, the shareholders and stockholders want to get a return on their investment. So some of these people will not exist. There’s no doubt. I believe five years from now, some of these people will not exist because they won’t be able to continue to light that money on fire.

But if they. Start paying attention to making sure that those people are also educated that are representing. Then we’ll start to see that stuff shift, but you tell me we’re on an upward swing right now and the market’s going crazy and people are putting in you know, ridiculous amount of money over asking, and they’re waving home inspections and they’re waiving appraisals, and it’s just sheer chaos and, and.

Prices are going up in the majority of the country. How long do you think that’s going to last? And can these companies compete and be recession proof because this is going to stop. It’s not going to continue to go up at this level. Real estate goes through cycles. And so I’ve witnessed a lot of people that even I’ve witnessed discount firms, right.

That come in when, why should I pay you? 6% for no service when I can pay this person 2% for no service, right? Because the stuff’s coming off the shelf and it’s selling like crazy. But when you need my skillset and you need my negotiating ability in order to be able to get your property marketed and your property sold are you going to go to the disruptors?

Are you going to go to an expert? And so that wave, I don’t believe that they’ve witnessed yet. So we’re going to see some, we’ll see, we’ll see some shakeouts, but some of them might get smart enough to say, you know what? We need some real estate professionals in here. In our staff, our top 19 people on our company, we have 490 years of real estate experience.

You can’t teach somebody how to swim from a book. So when you understand all of the cycles and you understand. All the mechanics of listing and selling real estate and, and all the waves that everybody goes through. I think that you can serve people a whole lot better, but that doesn’t mean those companies won’t decide, wait a minute, we need to find some real estate professionals and not people that built technology or not people that built other businesses.

There may be people that come in and start to realize that, but it will be very interesting to see when the market shifts and, and it will. Yeah, I definitely agree that the, the, the open door and Zillow offer organizations, their biggest you know, risk in terms of the organization is what happens when the market swings the other direction.

Right. Is, are, do they have a whole bunch of inventory that they’re upside down on? And if so, do they handle it like a BlackRock or whatever it was Blackstone, maybe? Did. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, when, when, you know, 2007, 2008 hit, and they just started saying, no problem, we’ll just run out the houses until the re the value recovers.

But I mean, you know, I, the, these, these entities are, are keeping up with the craziness of these offers. I was shocked. I got a Zillow offer on a home, my own the other day and their total fee, including everything was 0.5% that they were taking. And. They th the offer that they made was. I’m going to say higher than what a very competitive environment would have yielded for that offer for what is a, you know, a rental house.

For, for me, it is a starter home in the Denver area. And I don’t think the average starter home person in Denver would have been able to afford to go over appraisal as much as what they they had. So, I mean, that’s, it’s a risk it’s, it’s a huge risk as the money dry up. But I can still see real estate being successful, even if they get to 30% because what I see is more transactions happening.

I see them that liquidity that they’re bringing to the market opened up more opportunities for realtors. And it looks scary from the outside that I guess I see it a different way and, and looking at it, comparing it with financial markets where every time in the history of time that moral liquidity has been brought to a market, it’s created more transactions.

And I think that’s just good for, for realtors overall. Any which way? Okay. Last question for you, Tammy. And this is the same question I ask every single gas as their last question and feel free to take a second if you need to, but if you could change one thing in real estate, in, in organized real estate, one thing, no matter whatever it is, what would that one thing be?

I know exactly what it would be, that threshold to get into it. And it’s two parts. The threshold to get into this business would be a little bit tougher. And it would be uniform across the country.

Individual States in order to get your real estate license individual States, they make a lot of money on people that get their real estate license. The majority of people that get their real estate license do not succeed. And that is a poor reflection on the industry as a whole. If it was a little bit tougher to get in I live in Massachusetts, we lovingly call it Taxachusetts and up until a handful of years ago, it was only 24 hours to go get your real estate license, 24 hours of school.

To represent the biggest investment most people will make and it’s 1500 hours to be able to cut somebody here. So there’s something wrong with that picture because my hair will grow back, but my investment might not. Right. If we could make it uniform across the country so that it would be the same amount of hours so that the expectation would be better all the way across and that the people were.

More educated all the way across, because it would be, then you would have serious people jump into the business that were really serious about it and focused on really it being a complete profession. I think that that would be, if I could wave a magic wand, that would be my perfect world. So Tammy, I am sitting here chuckling I’m on mute because, so I, you’re going to hear it here.

First folks, try, this is going to hold a summit of leaders, just like Tammy in the industry. Because if you listen to this show regularly, the thing you know, is that every single leader of any single major organization or real estate. Has given the exact same answer Tammy just gave it is hard bigger standards, you know, mentorship required apprenticeship harder standards, more expensive to get into the industry.

These are all the answers, Tammy, that, you know, the CEO of Sotheby’s the president of Fox & Roach Berkshire Hathaway, Fox & Roach realtors. 5,500 person brokerage. These are Howard Chung. Who’s a VP of franchise development for John L Scott. These are the exact same answer that everybody gives, and I am more convinced than ever that we need to hold a summit of the leaders in real estate to get together, to discuss how we’re going to set standards, maybe not at the state level but at the organizational level and say, Hey, we’re going to be an an RTB or raise the bar.

Organization. And for that we’re going to say that you cannot be a brand new agent without participating in a mentorship program because we can’t guarantee the quality of the service that you provide. Tammy. If we did that, is that something that you’d attend? I would love to awesome. Right? Well, we’re going to make that happen in the next few months, because you’re probably the seventh or eighth person out of 30 guests that we’ve had and every single CEO of any single franchise or a large organization has that the same answer.

So we’re going to do that. Well, thanks so much again, Tammy, for for coming on the show again, folks you’ve been listening to Tammy Brunel, she’s the CEO of EXIT Realty, Corp International and make sure you subscribe to the brokerage insider podcast using your favorite podcast player so that you get this episode in every future episode delivered right to your inbox every single Monday.

Thanks so much for listening.

Transcript
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Hi everybody. And welcome to brokerage insider the podcast where we interview the leaders in real estate and technology. I'm your host, Eric Stegemann and I'm the CEO of tritus. We're one of the largest independent prop tech companies in real estate and provider of custom brokerage technology to medium and large sized brokerages in the United States, Canada, and even around the world. Now on this week's episode, we have Tammy Bucknell. Tammy is the CEO of exit Realty Corp International. Tammy started. With exit as a regional owner, then moved over into running things at exit as a VP, then president. And now she's been CEO since 2012. So Tammy, thanks for joining us today. I'm really happy to be here. So I'm really excited to chat because there's a few topics here that I know that are important to you. That I'd love to get your take on. But I want to step back for just a second, because one of the things that I've found in, in interviewing all of our guests for the show is they always have a really good story of how they got to where they got to. So why don't you tell me how you got to start in residential real estate and then how you went through those paths that I just mentioned, and now being the CEO of exit. Okay. Probably not that exciting of a story, but you know, I. Actually started my first business when I was 11 and I started cleaning houses. And I cleaned site for builders because I could be dropped off in a subdivision and go from house to house. And you know, work ethic was a real strong thing in our family. So every Saturday and Sunday, that's what I did. And I actually was scraping windows, sitting inside a window, scraping the windows from the paint and a realtor and a builder were in the house. With the buyers that were relocating and they were doing the final walkthrough and the wall between the kitchen and the dining room was actually supposed to be more of an open concept. And it wasn't. And so the buyers came in all upset that it was yelling and screaming. I'm sitting in the windows thing, please make me invisible. And But when they slammed their way out of the door, the builder put his fist through the wall. And I jumped through the window and said I think you broke your hand. And he said, drive me to the hospital. I had lied about my age and I drove him to the hospital and he did break his hand and he had a cast put on. And then when I was driving him back in, my dad was pulling back up to pick me up and I ended up grounded for driving and On the way back, he was just complaining about how realtors were never getting it right with new construction. And I was, how hard is it? You want White, you want off White, you paint a picture for somebody, you know, something pretty similar to that. And he said, you think you can sell houses? And I said, absolutely. And he said, good start Saturday. So I got $500 a house starting at 13 years old. And I looked older than my age. So I think that's what happened, but I thought real estate was really disorganized. And so I never really thought that I would be in it for a living and I focused on finance and I went to work for a company. In the South Merrill Lynch and it turned out to be those, both the timeframe that they were acquiring real estate companies. And I hated being locked up in a cubicle and turned out I had a knack for doing acquisitions and that's how I started. And then I was prior to coming to exit. I was instrumental in building three major brands. I taught. Mergers and acquisitions. I acquired real estate companies for them and I sold franchises for them. So really the majority of my career has been in the backroom or at least 30 plus years has been in the backroom focused on doing mergers and acquisitions, selling franchises, and helping those companies to grow. Well, that's a, I personally think that's a very interesting story of how you got started in the space, because what I find is that everybody has some sort of person personal connection. You know, we, we interviewed Joan doctor that the president of Fox Roach realtors a few weeks back, and she had a really bad experience with the transaction and her buying her first house. And. And we ha we've had other people that have just had these exact same sorts of situations that have, would have got them into the industry. So I always love hearing, you know, a little about where you started and what was that first first kind of moment that said that you're there, because what I find is that, you know, true leaders in the space, they're kind of all what I refer to as real estate lifers. Right. So, so, you know, you have decades of experience in the space and now you're running exit. So, you know, let's talk about exit for just a second. Okay. What, you know, what's what is the brand or what does exit stand for? Well, you know, we were actually there's a very unique differentiator in our company in the fact that we have, we provide residual income. So kind of the Sam Walton theory that he rewarded people for the percentage of the company, they helped build. That is our theory. Sam created more millionaires than anyone in the history of businesses. From doing that. And we thought Sam was right, but in real estate, we don't sell lawnmowers and coffee pots. Right. We sell real estate. So the assets of a real estate company are their agents. And so if we treat the agents incredibly well, we'll do really well. This entire company was built on human potential, but the residual component is that unfair, competitive advantage of having the opportunity to every person that gets introduced into the company. They have to be it's by invitation only. So if I introduce an agent into this organization, I received the equivalent of 10% of the gross commission up to $10,000 a year, every year, for as long as that person is with the company, as good as that is when I retire benefits like real people with real jobs, I make 7% of that income, even in retirement. The other 3% goes to the broker because we want the broker to have a balanced and they even took it a step further and thought about my family. And when I die, my beneficiary. Half of that makes 5%. Even after I'm gone, the balance goes to the brokerage. So we've had opportunities now where people have gone into retirement for getting going on maternity leave and they've had steady, consistent income they've had. So they've been able to stay home longer. They've had hips replaced. They've been able to be with parents while they transitioned. It's convertible. So once they were through whatever they were going through, they can come back in. Once their seventh transactions passes up to eight, they can come back into the 10%. So it's convertible, it's portable. I relocate my significant other, gets a new job somewhere else. And I relocate with them. I go into an exit office there and my benefits follow me like real people with real jobs. So it gives people cash between paychecks. It gives them a vested interest in the company and that makes them feel like they have. Ownership. You know, if you and I went to a really nice restaurant for dinner tonight, and the waiter that waited on us had a vested interest in the restaurant, how much better does that serve us for sure. Much better. Right, right. And so that's really what ends up happening in the offices is we create this culture where everybody works better together as a team. It's now in my best interest, if I'm making $150,000 a year, it's in my best interest to teach you how to do better, because as you do better, I do better. And who learns more the teacher or the student. So I actually get better at my job by helping you. And we found that that's created an unbelievable family culture. But it's gone a lot further than that on human potential because people growing in an environment where they feel safe, where they feel trust. And so that has made them. Really grow within the boundaries of the office. And we have all the other things that, you know, other franchises and brands have. Number one, they want leadership. So we have boots on the ground, regional owners in each individual, state and province. And we're very selective about introducing brokerages into the company. Number two, they want education. So. We provide education from every single angle. Now I just got my license. What do I do all the way to the consummate professional, making millions of dollars, dollars webinars tech and I's live interactive, total immersion, so they can learn the best way that they learn. They want help with technology. So we actually have a technology specialist. My statement is always from Tony Robbins information without implementation equals poverty. Right. And that's the biggest problem in technology is user error. So. We have single entry and we have a technology specialist. She speaks English, Spanish and technology, and she teaches the brokers and the agents, not only how to utilize exits tools and how to monetize so that they can grow their business. But she always remembers that it's the human behind the transaction. It's the human behind the device. So. She teaches them how to utilize it, to maximize their business. Number four, they want help with the details. And that's why we have single entry, very user-friendly so that they can get that help, that they need. Number five, they want a marketing program they can track. So our technology is very intuitive. Number six, they want a good image. So are focused on image is that opportunity to. Really be the smartest company and having that image of everybody working in this together, right. That vested interest mentality and number seven, they want skin in the game. We interviewed people making $250,000 a year or better from all faiths. What do you like? What don't you like and what would you like to see? And that was the top seven things they wanted. And obviously that skin in the game of having a vested interest, it's kind of like that agent has their shoulder on the rock. Just like the broker so that they're working. It's not one in charge. They're working together as a team more than anything else. And that's worked very well for us as a. The foundation for our company. Yeah. It sure seems like it. And I think the technology person that you're referring to, I'm assuming that is that a net. And that Anthony, I love it. I've known her now for 10 plus years, I think. And, and she's just a phenomenal resource that you guys have over there and such a good connector and, and, and helping train and educate people. And so, you know, out of, out of all of those points that you just went over, obviously I think, you know, that one of the things that really. Is that, there's the point that I feel like exit has pushed for 20 years. And, and you know, I've, I've seen exits ads starting in a realtor magazine when I first started selling real estate 20 something years ago about these residuals. And so I guess that begs the follow up question is it as if you do the math in it, it seems like. The total payout that exit might have to make on a single transaction could potentially get over a hundred percent. Am I understanding that correctly? Or am I maybe missing something? No. The agent has the ability to earn more than a hundred percent by introducing people into the company because with whatever their, their split is. Right. If they're receiving the equivalent of 10% off the top, And they, you know, we teach them and have them focus on introducing three people a year into the company. There's some that do, you know, don't introduce anybody. They just want to listen to themselves. And there's some that introduced several people into the company. So it gives them the ability to earn more than a hundred percent. But it comes off the top that 10%, and it doesn't come out of the agent's portion and it gets sent up to exit International and then we pay it back. Down to the individual that introduced that person into the company. I mean, it seems like there's some people that exit that their sole focus is on recruiting. So inter do you guys ever have that problem? And I know I've heard this around exp a lot over the last two years is do you guys ever have that problem where people feel a little pushy, as far as the recruiting side of things go and you have to back them off because of how good your, your residuals are. You know what? We created this culture that it's people that really love helping other people, it's really a, a unique foundation. It's much more empathy oriented than ego driven. So I don't find very many of our people that are pushy. We teach them that it's about building a relationship. It's not hunting people down. Right. It's truly about building a relationship in the ordinary course of business. We're doing a transaction together and I love the way you work. And I think that you'll do better in our company because our broker has the uncanny knack of. Helping get more and better out of you. And it's really that kind of simple introduction. It's not hunting people down. We do have people that work solely as recruiters that work in individual real estate, state offices. But that would be the same in any company, right. That they have a manager or they have a recruiter. There are people that do that, and that helps them build on a faster pace. But most often it's. In the ordinary course of doing a transaction that they got along really well. You know, maybe the other agent mentioned that they're not satisfied where they are, or they're not getting any education where they are or something that. Gave them an opening to have a conversation, but I always tell them, it's just a conversation you want to make sure it's people that you really want to work with because that's a representation of who you are, right. If the people that are within your office but sure from time to time, there's a conversation that you should have with someone. If they get to that point, cause that's not really how this was built. It was built to build a relationship, just like the real estate industry as a whole, right. Is a relationship. Driven business. And the more you get to know that person for me personally, I've broken some world records in sales, and I can tell you that it's the number one reason is because I did more homework on the person than I even did on the product. Right. And. Giving somebody what they really want. And so I always say, I'm not even going out and selling anything today. I'm going and having a conversation. I'm going to go add value to people's lives. And if we find a common ground and our business philosophies match, then they'll end up being coming part of the company. But that doesn't happen every day. Right. It happens when those things match, but if I do enough homework, so I find out what's really important to you. I'm probably going to be in front of the right people more often than not. Yeah, that's, that's definitely the case. And, and, you know, I've to be very clear, I've never seen anybody complain about exit, getting too pushy with, with presenting the opportunity to join. And I know there's some places where exp agents, I, I feel like I get intimidated because I'm listed in the real estate industry. I still get. Probably, I don't know, in an average month, 10 or 15 people that are just randomly reaching out to me, based upon my licensing, based upon my LinkedIn profile that says I'm in real estate that say, Oh, you should come join us. And it, it can get a little overwhelming at times. And I I've told Glen their CEO that it, you know, at some point that you gotta be careful on this because it can present a negative connotation to the brand. If somebody gets a little too pushy and I don't feel like I've ever had that. At exit, although I have had people at exit reach out and suggest that I you know, that I, that I would put my license with them. And I still don't, I don't have it still to this day, but I did for a long time up until a couple of years ago. And, and. You know, I want to go back to something else you said that I think is so vital there, which is you're talking about. When you talk to the other agent that will, you'd be considered a recruiting you're, you're sitting there and asking them about what they're not getting at their brokerage. And one of the things you said there, and if you notice Tammy, didn't say a lot about the necessarily the commission. She talked about support and training and everything like that. And I tried this, we did a study two or three years ago now. And we found out the number one, two, and three things that an agent left a brokerage for, none of them were commissioned. In fact, number one was training and support. Number two is technology, which we'll get into in a second. But, but certainly training and support. So, you know, I know you're big on personal development and that's a big thing, and I'm going to, I definitely want to dive into that a little bit more with you. So what are some ways specifically that exit helps their agents get the best training and support? Well, we have trainers that are specific to exits. We have and they're called mindset trainers for a reason. And so it's everything from mindset, literally the power of your subconscious mind controlling what you think all the way to focusing on good health during the pandemic. We actually had people teaching accurate. Totally. You know, when we first launched accurate, totally teaching yoga ways for stress relief, but we have everything from. Truly with our trainers. I just got my license now, what do I do all the way to the content, but professional teaching them how to be more effective business people, right? Because they're, they get to a certain level. So we have International trainers that are part of our system. We actually have a partnership with the Fenian company so that they, we have a tremendous amount of our people that have been trained by the FINI, but our specific trainers that are. Exit mindset trainers. A lot of them also coach and some of them coach specifically to agents and some of them coach specifically to brokers. And it really kind of depends on where their levels at. And we try and match up with where they're at, right? I've got to meet you where you are. And so that's why we have such a variety of mindset trainers that are specific to our company because we want to meet them where they are, whether that's. You know, just get me into the right habits. I just got my license or somebody that's, we just need to make them more effective with their time and more effective with their money and more effective with their marketing, more effective with their technology so that they are growing because people. Really loves the opportunity to grow and when they get stagnant, that's when they get that's when they get frustrated. So we put a tremendous amount of emphasis on training. We have webinars every single month for our broker owners, our agents, our administrative staff as well, because we really think that a good backup is incredibly important. And we also have training Every month that there's five weeks out of the month. We actually do a webinar on good health as well, because we want them to have longevity and we want them to have some form of a work-life balance. And, you know, you're, you're absolutely right. And that actually, you know, that work-life balance and that mental strengths kind of leads me into my next question. And that is, I know that you're a black belt in TaeKwonDo. And so, you know, we're involved in that, that process of training, support, energizing agents building that mindset, you know, how much do you think that that part of your life came in to making this such an important part of exit? Well, I think it's tremendous. I think that, that the mind body connection is so important for everyone. I mean, really when you, when you have something that you really value. From a mind connection. So something that I really value that I'm really interested in and that I think is really important towards my goals, right. It matches my value system. My, my bowls match my value system. I'm going to stay disciplined and I'm going to stay passionate. Certainly martial arts teaches a tremendous amount of self discipline and you know, It, but it's not really just about fighting, right? It's really about that. Having more control over your body and having more control over your thoughts and keeping that connected all the way through, but you know, not all of us grew up in necessarily healthy environments and it's really important to get people, to have some sort of a work-life balance. All the way through when you come to our broker-owner training, which is a week Pilon when they purchase a franchise the entire first day, that, that Monday they actually learn about themselves. Not one single thing has really spoken about real estate. It's understanding affirmations, it's understanding the power of their subconscious mind. It's understanding the way they think it's understanding that personality profile. So by the end of the week and ongoing, a lot of people will. Come to you and say, yes, I'm better at my business because of being here. You know, I, I'm making a profit, I'm doing a terrific job as far as my business goes, but I cannot believe how great the relationships are in my family and how much better that is because of what I learned here. You know, it seems amazing what you're telling me here about all of this, these resources that you provide. And I guess it begs the question is so much around the conversation exits that I hear that when people did try to recruit me back in the day and, and so much of what I hear about the brand now is focused on residuals and income and everything like that. Do you think that's, that is. You know, the, the primary thing that people are discussing, or maybe just that the people that I've spoken with, haven't talked about this training, because I'll tell you from my perspective, that's something that would have resonated heavily with me. Everything you're talking about right now would have resonated heavily with me. And it's, it's, you know, something I tend generally knew about it from talking to a net, but obviously it digging in here with your more and hearing about all these things that you guys provide. It seems like it's not. As well-known as the residual piece. So maybe, you know, maybe it's just me and the, and the people that I've spoken with, but it is it, you know, something that exit actively markets and says, Hey, this is a huge part of what we do here. Yes, we do actively market it, but I think that a lot of brand new people when they're, when they're brand new and they haven't had the exposure to as much of what exit has to offer you know, when they're, when they're fairly new, then they definitely concentrate on the re residuals and don't get me wrong. I teach the agents and focused on strongly. I want them to have true financial freedom. So for me, I want them to have it for all of the right reasons. Right. So if I know exactly what my overhead is, and this is something that everybody should do for themselves anyway. Right? True financial freedom means that all my bills are paid before I get out of bed in the morning. And so if I wake up January one and I know that all my bills are covered for the year, it doesn't matter whether I bought investment property. I have residual income. It doesn't matter what that thing is, but when I get to that point, so say the average agent, their overhead for their mortgage and, you know, food and housing and everything else that they have in their life is 40 to 60,000. Then I know that that's how much money I want to have coming in every month. month. Even before I go out and list and sell real estate that I want them to get to that point. So I always have them figure out what their overhead is. So now they know what that target is and whether that's you know, working with investors, investing in real estate, investing in other things, it's getting them to that point because once they have that level of financial freedom, it's amazing how. Much easier your job gets when you're not worried about how you're going to make the money. It's amazing how much more joyful your job gets and how much you are in a servant leader mentality, as opposed to having, having to go sell something. So I think that's incredibly important, but I think it's incredibly important because then when my daughter has a play on Friday night, I don't have to go take a listing. I can go to replay. Right. And if I have a parent teacher conference that I don't have to say, I'm sorry, I can't, I can't go. I can actually build in that flexibility in my life. And so I want them to have that work-life balance. And so part of that is part of that component is. Having that financial freedom, but the more they grow, the more they want to grow, the more people grow, the more they want to grow. Right. That curiosity factor is unbelievable. You know, people that read regularly and they consider reading regularly a book a month, I read about 300 books a year. And because I'm an information junkie and I re I happened to read very fast and I love to read, but People that read regularly in their lifetime, make nine times as much income as people that don't. So why wouldn't that be something we'd want to make sure we make a focus? We actually believe in leadership to the point that we actually have a director of leadership and we put on leadership programs all the time. So actually starting this next Thursday Bob McKinnon, who's our director of leadership and Laurie Mueller, who is our vice president over the U S organization. They're going to be doing an entire series leadership course on the book, the dream manager. And they've gone through four so far during the pandemic of walking everybody through and teaching them to pull the most that they can out of the book. And one of the most refreshing things out of it is that it's getting people to actually read more, even people that didn't enjoy reading and not really enjoying it. Yeah, and I mean, there's a, there's a great old line elite a, a leader as a reader. Right. And frankly, it's privacy, something that, that changed. Me, obviously I never, I mean, I never made time for it until Steve Murray. From real trends you know, said something to me and then introduced me to a guy that was speaking at one of his events, Patrick Lencioni. And he gave me a copy of one of his books called the five dysfunctions of a team. And I feel like it, it completely changed not only my long-term mindset of reading, but, but also that one book. Had amazing effects just on my leadership here at Travis and recognizing, you know, the importance of, of being able to disagree with, with leadership, other leaders or other people in your organization. But still, you know, knowing when the, the disagreements were healthy versus when they were unhealthy. And that has helped me move away from being a yes, man, which I think I was for the first four or five years of running the, the try this, moving away from expecting my staff to be yes, people moving to where, you know, I actively seek out and want the advice of them. And I may not go with them every time, but I feel like I've put them in a position to tell me something that I didn't know. And that's just one book out of, you know, 50 or a hundred. And I, I haven't read nearly as many as you do. But but certainly changed my mindset there. With regard to that. So, you know, we've got a lot of topics left to cover here. I w wish we could dig into that a little bit more. But I wanted to touch on a few other things about exits innovations. You know, obviously there was the you know, the residuals and everything like that, that you've done. But you know, one, one thing that I know, and I don't know if you offered any more, but just one thing off the top of my head that I thought was so interesting. Back 10, 12 years ago, which is you guys really focused on the concept of getting agents paid faster. So that kind of goes along with this process of making sure that people are financially sound getting agents paid faster. And I know that was something you guys really pushed on for a while in terms of same day payments. And you guys even innovated and came up with debit cards that you gave to agents and could pay them immediately out on their debit cards, their residuals. And even potentially their, their commission income what are the innovations that exit is looking at from now over the next, you know, three, five years? Well, right now we have which has helped us tremendously with COVID and I think it's there's bringing up, we have smart sign technology so that you can pull up in front of a house and you text eight, five, three, seven, seven, and punch in. it. And the listing comes to your phone. And so for people that are buying, they don't have to, you know, COVID friendly at shore made it, but it's also buyers don't usually want to deal with a realtor until they're really ready to buy. Right. They looked for a long time before they are really ready to be in that buying circle. You know, they look nine or 10 months ahead of time. They start looking at. All the homes. So this gives them an opportunity to literally drive around and get the listing sent to their phone so that they can determine, you know, if I'm going to drive around and see 10 homes and maybe I just want to go in and see too, it's definitely made it COVID friendly. But even prior to that, it's the convenience factor, right? They want you, when they want you, consumers want you when they want you, but they don't want to want to all the time. It helps our agents to have control of their business because then their cell phone would be sent to the. Agents that had the listing and now they can reach out and say, I noticed you were looking at 23 Jones street. If there's any questions I can answer for you, let me know. We also have mobile business cards. So if you text eight five, three, seven, seven, and punch in T a M, I. And hit send, you'll get my mobile business card sent to your phone. Now I'm in your contacts and you can reach out to me the way you prefer to reach out to me. Right? You can text call, text, yeah. Or email or whatever way you feel is the most comfortable for you. In order to be able to reach out even social media was we have a digital marketing strategy that is helping our agents to really gain listings because they have it already prepared in advance which is helping them considerably. We have an app. You know, the consumer wants, still wants to have a trusted advisor wants that person that's educated, that will provide a solution, but they also want speed and transparency. And so that app for speed and transparency is really phenomenal. And that really does make a huge difference in taking things further. Obviously we've definitely touched on, on residuals and right now our technology team is working. On making everything much more connected and much more intuitive so that if I have an agent that it's connecting, it's going to be interacting with them, helping them to do their business better. By even just being able to read them better and making suggestions, it's kind of a, a 2.0 for us, and that's going to be coming out this year and will really help them to. Grow to the next level based on where they're at right now and what it is that they've put in for what they have for goals and targets. And I think that's going to be really terrific for just even the share opportunity to be able to interact on a, on a regular steady basis. So, you know, obviously there's a lot of tech that you guys have and are, and are working on enhancing. You know, what's, what is the thing that's gonna make? An exit agent, more powerful than open door Zillow offers or these huge players that are coming in with billions of dollars of real estate. Like what's, what's the thing that says, Hey, money doesn't matter. An exit agent is better. Well, I think that that's, but that's a, that's a, a nerve for me beyond belief. And so money isn't enough, right? Disruptors coming into this business, if they're focused solely on technology and they're not focused, skillset will beat out. Technology every day of the week, right? If I find out what it's really important to you and I stay ahead of the curve on where the windows of opportunity are, and I can help you as a consumer. And I find out what your real estate dreams are, and I can help you as a consumer to really Grow your you're going to want to work with me on a regular basis. So that technology is meant to be a tool. It's the human behind that device. It's the human behind that transaction. And every human is different, right. That you're dealing with. So You know, investors will be about 10% of the business. And that's always ongoing investors that don't necessarily work with a realtor because they understand and some contractors and developers because they understand how the business works and they're working with sheer numbers. Right. So. If I'm buying enough property, I can, I can work with sheer numbers, but the average consumer really wants a trusted advisor. I don't like those words, trusted advisor. I prefer that they really want somebody to be the solution for them. And that means that I really need to listen and find out. What's really important to you. I'll give you a great example. I had a guy that was in the DC marketplace and I spoke there a few years back and he was going in and he was the fourth person going in for a listing appointment. And I said, do me a favor, Google them, friend them on Facebook and connect with them on LinkedIn. If you have time, what do you know about him so far? And he said, I know he owns his own business and he's in his seventies. And I said, look, I asked him where he sees himself in the next one, three, five years, asked him when he plans on. Retiring or if he even does plan on retiring ask him where, ask him why he asked you to come and do a listing appointment and what he wanted to get out of it. And he went in and asked him the questions he was forced going in. Everyone else came in with a CMA, you know, fancy, pretty. Came in with a CMA, they didn't ask him any personal questions. He said, you're the first person that asked me these questions and he did want to sell his business within the next one to three years, he did want to retire. He wanted to retire down in the Carolinas on the ocean and the reason he wanted him to come in and do a listing appointment is he wanted to know if this was the most opportune time for him to sell his house because he wanted to get the most. Money out of it, he possibly could. And he said, you know what? I'd hold off on that for a little while. If I were you, he didn't go in just for the juggler. I hold off a little while let's stay in touch. You know, every couple of weeks to a month, depending on what's going on with the market. And he not only sent them a referral and said, I'd buy the Retirement home now because waterfront there's still only so much waterfront and waterfront steadily goes up. I pay attention to that. He taught him short-term rentals. He did a referral for the transaction and the Carolinas and he bought five investment properties for him. And he listed the property about 15 months afterwards. Not during that timeframe. And he made $150,000 more on his property than he would have if he had listed it, then he increased the guy's net worth by about $2.4 million. But he also got six transactions and a referral out of it. So, which is better. For sure. For sure. And that's the human connection? I, I was fortunate when I, when I grew up my best friend, her her dad was the COO of Edward Jones and I've often said that real estate in, in. The way that it works is, is going to be most successful for those that treat it like Edward Jones, not like E-Trade right. You know what? Well, I was just going to say something to you, which I think is really that's so spot on. So I have a Robinhood account and an acorns account, you know, you're familiar with those, right? The little apps that you have. So I'm bored at the airport and I play with the Robin hood or acorns, and it's 50 bucks here and 50 bucks there, but I'm not putting my estate into Robinhood or acorns. Yep. I'm not going to do it right. I'm going to have a person that knows more about money than I do make sure that I am maximizing on every opportunity and they understand what my intent is. And I'm going to do the same thing with real estate. So it's really easy to disrupt and be an Amazon and disrupt. The book business, because I can have it on your doorstep tomorrow. It's really easy to disrupt vitamins and anything else that I can have instant gratification on because it's a small product for a small price, right? Uber going into taxis, it's a small product for a small price, but where I'm going to raise my family and what most people have as a nest egg the majority of wealth is built by real estate. And so. Me putting somebody in that can't answer my questions and can't help me grow to the next level. I'm not going to respect that person as a real estate professional. Can they disrupt some of the business? Sure. They can disrupt some of the business, but they will never be able to beat the, the skillset and the ability to stay ahead of that curve and show somebody a serious return. I've got two more questions for you because we're almost at a time here. So you know, banking on that last statement that you just made, you know, you've got open door, you've got Zillow offers, right. And there are lots of money that's coming in for that. Do you see a place in real estate where things operate traditionally? Where open door and Zillow offers are taking 30% of all listings and that the business stays the same. And it's just, there's new players that are taking on this. Or do you think that they put in a whole bunch of money? You know, let's, let's take the crystal ball out five years from now. Do you think that they've put in a whole bunch of money and at the end they say it's just not financially viable for us to continue to do this anymore. I wish I had that crystal ball. Right. But I, I honestly believe that I honestly believe that the majority of business will still be done and I don't necessarily think that's a traditional brokerage. I think it's cause I feel like we're very much uncola right. We're embracing technology, but we're just not forgetting that there's a human behind that. Transaction or human behind that device. You know, it's and so you want to deal with a professional that's on the other side, not just looking at great pictures and everything else. So I think that the key will be if they go through and focus, because we've already witnessed people that have lit. You know, billions of dollars on fire and technology and real estate and have not made a profit, right? We witnessed it in so many different areas. It isn't even funny and sooner or later, the investors want to get a return on their investment, right? Sooner or later, the shareholders and stockholders want to get a return on their investment. So some of these people will not exist. There's no doubt. I believe five years from now, some of these people will not exist because they won't be able to continue to light that money on fire. But if they. Start paying attention to making sure that those people are also educated that are representing. Then we'll start to see that stuff shift, but you tell me we're on an upward swing right now and the market's going crazy and people are putting in you know, ridiculous amount of money over asking, and they're waving home inspections and they're waiving appraisals, and it's just sheer chaos and, and. Prices are going up in the majority of the country. How long do you think that's going to last? And can these companies compete and be recession proof because this is going to stop. It's not going to continue to go up at this level. Real estate goes through cycles. And so I've witnessed a lot of people that even I've witnessed discount firms, right. That come in when, why should I pay you? 6% for no service when I can pay this person 2% for no service, right? Because the stuff's coming off the shelf and it's selling like crazy. But when you need my skillset and you need my negotiating ability in order to be able to get your property marketed and your property sold are you going to go to the disruptors? Are you going to go to an expert? And so that wave, I don't believe that they've witnessed yet. So we're going to see some, we'll see, we'll see some shakeouts, but some of them might get smart enough to say, you know what? We need some real estate professionals in here. In our staff, our top 19 people on our company, we have 490 years of real estate experience. You can't teach somebody how to swim from a book. So when you understand all of the cycles and you understand. All the mechanics of listing and selling real estate and, and all the waves that everybody goes through. I think that you can serve people a whole lot better, but that doesn't mean those companies won't decide, wait a minute, we need to find some real estate professionals and not people that built technology or not people that built other businesses. There may be people that come in and start to realize that, but it will be very interesting to see when the market shifts and, and it will. Yeah, I definitely agree that the, the, the open door and Zillow offer organizations, their biggest you know, risk in terms of the organization is what happens when the market swings the other direction. Right. Is, are, do they have a whole bunch of inventory that they're upside down on? And if so, do they handle it like a BlackRock or whatever it was Blackstone, maybe? Did. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, when, when, you know, 2007, 2008 hit, and they just started saying, no problem, we'll just run out the houses until the re the value recovers. But I mean, you know, I, the, these, these entities are, are keeping up with the craziness of these offers. I was shocked. I got a Zillow offer on a home, my own the other day and their total fee, including everything was 0.5% that they were taking. And. They th the offer that they made was. I'm going to say higher than what a very competitive environment would have yielded for that offer for what is a, you know, a rental house. For, for me, it is a starter home in the Denver area. And I don't think the average starter home person in Denver would have been able to afford to go over appraisal as much as what they they had. So, I mean, that's, it's a risk it's, it's a huge risk as the money dry up. But I can still see real estate being successful, even if they get to 30% because what I see is more transactions happening. I see them that liquidity that they're bringing to the market opened up more opportunities for realtors. And it looks scary from the outside that I guess I see it a different way and, and looking at it, comparing it with financial markets where every time in the history of time that moral liquidity has been brought to a market, it's created more transactions. And I think that's just good for, for realtors overall. Any which way? Okay. Last question for you, Tammy. And this is the same question I ask every single gas as their last question and feel free to take a second if you need to, but if you could change one thing in real estate, in, in organized real estate, one thing, no matter whatever it is, what would that one thing be? I know exactly what it would be, that threshold to get into it. And it's two parts. The threshold to get into this business would be a little bit tougher. And it would be uniform across the country. Individual States in order to get your real estate license individual States, they make a lot of money on people that get their real estate license. The majority of people that get their real estate license do not succeed. And that is a poor reflection on the industry as a whole. If it was a little bit tougher to get in I live in Massachusetts, we lovingly call it Taxachusetts and up until a handful of years ago, it was only 24 hours to go get your real estate license, 24 hours of school. To represent the biggest investment most people will make and it's 1500 hours to be able to cut somebody here. So there's something wrong with that picture because my hair will grow back, but my investment might not. Right. If we could make it uniform across the country so that it would be the same amount of hours so that the expectation would be better all the way across and that the people were. More educated all the way across, because it would be, then you would have serious people jump into the business that were really serious about it and focused on really it being a complete profession. I think that that would be, if I could wave a magic wand, that would be my perfect world. So Tammy, I am sitting here chuckling I'm on mute because, so I, you're going to hear it here. First folks, try, this is going to hold a summit of leaders, just like Tammy in the industry. Because if you listen to this show regularly, the thing you know, is that every single leader of any single major organization or real estate. Has given the exact same answer Tammy just gave it is hard bigger standards, you know, mentorship required apprenticeship harder standards, more expensive to get into the industry. These are all the answers, Tammy, that, you know, the CEO of Sotheby's the president of Fox Roach Berkshire Hathaway, Fox Roach realtors. 5,500 person brokerage. These are Howard Chung. Who's a VP of franchise development for John L Scott. These are the exact same answer that everybody gives, and I am more convinced than ever that we need to hold a summit of the leaders in real estate to get together, to discuss how we're going to set standards, maybe not at the state level but at the organizational level and say, Hey, we're going to be an an RTB or raise the bar. Organization. And for that we're going to say that you cannot be a brand new agent without participating in a mentorship program because we can't guarantee the quality of the service that you provide. Tammy. If we did that, is that something that you'd attend? I would love to awesome. Right? Well, we're going to make that happen in the next few months, because you're probably the seventh or eighth person out of 30 guests that we've had and every single CEO of any single franchise or a large organization has that the same answer. So we're going to do that. Well, thanks so much again, Tammy, for for coming on the show again, folks you've been listening to Tammy Brunel, she's the CEO of exit Realty, Corp International and make sure you subscribe to the brokerage insider podcast using your favorite podcast player so that you get this episode in every future episode delivered right to your inbox every single Monday. Thanks so much for listening.

CEO | Director of Strategy
With more than 17 years experience in the real estate industry, including being a Realtor and Broker / Owner, Stegemann brings a wealth of knowledge to this job as CEO of TRIBUS. He focuses his time on helping brokers enhance and expand their business and working with the TRIBUS labs team to consider what's next in real estate.
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