How Sothebys Holds Brand Standards and is Consistently Profitable with CEO Philip White

Hi everybody. And welcome to brokerage insider the podcast where we interview the leaders in real estate and technology. I'm your host, Eric Stegemann and I'm the CEO of Travis. We're one of the largest independent prop tech companies in real estate and provider of custom brokers technology to medium and large sized brokerages in the United States, Canada. And even around the world today, I am very pleased to say that we have Philip White Phillips, the president and CEO of Sotheby's International Realty. Now you probably heard of Sotheby's International Realty before, but just in case you don't know much about them, they span nearly the entire globe. And they're focused obviously on luxury real estate, just like the auction house of their namesake. The company recently announced that it had did over $150 billion of sales in 2020, which was a 32% increase over 2019. In addition, the network has grown during that time and is now over a thousand offices in 75 different countries. Philip, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you, Eric. It's great to be here. Now Philip, uh, you know, obviously we always do lots of research on, on everybody that we're going to be interviewing for this podcast ahead of time. And I found this kind of consistent thing, uh, with people that we've interviewed recently, I had Joan doctor, uh, who's the. President of Fox Roach, uh, realtors, and, and, and like you, uh, she also is a real estate lifer or what I call a real estate lifer. You have 40 years of experience in this industry. So let's start with what got you started in becoming a residential real estate agent.

Okay. Thanks Eric. So just, you know, the, the short form, you know, answer to that, uh, actually out of college, um, um, I, um, I went to the university of Virginia and I have a degree in finance. And so I was hired by a bank in Atlanta, Georgia, which is where I'm from, uh, uh, SunTrust bank, because they've now changed their name. And it's in a, it's a great bank is a great bank today. Um, but I had actually studied a bit in London. And I got to know the Sotheby's auction house, uh, through, uh, a friend of mine, a friend of mine's sister worked there and their French impressionist department. So I had a real fascination actually with, with Sotheby's the auction house. Um, and then, um, I moved back, went to work at the bank. Um, and then later on I noticed that Sotheby's had started a real estate company. Um, and so I was in New York on some business. Um, I ended up kind of cold calling on the chief operating officer there. And, and us was in his office for about two hours actually. And he introduced me to the chairman and the president of the real estate company. And one thing led to another, um, and they hired me and I moved to New York and got licensed there. And. Um, we had a little bit different business model than we have today, but we worked with independent real estate companies and I actually handled New Jersey and Fairfield County, which is Southern Connecticut. So, um, you know, we listed and sold, uh, you know, luxury properties in the region. Then I moved to Palm beach, um, and worked in our Palm beach office, uh, which was fascinating. Um, and then, you know, my career kind of, you know, moved on from there. Um, but that's how I ended up in real estate. It was, uh, a combination of, you know, the Sotheby's brand and, you know, I, I really saw a great opportunity, uh, you know, that. That Sotheby's could bring to the real estate market. So that's, that's how I ended up in the business area.

And here you are, you know, years later and still enjoying it, uh, it seems like which is, which is great. Uh, it certainly helps them personally. I think you lead one of the most, uh, iconic brands in. Residential real estate and frankly from the auction house as well. And so, you know, when I travel, uh, back when we could travel, but back when I traveled. We see agents all over the place, um, where the brokerage brand has been entirely wiped away by the agent's own marketing, their teams, et cetera. And I use the example, a lot of KW, where if you look at KW agents, you almost have to play where's Waldo to try to find the KW logo, uh, on some of their marketing, but Sotheby's, isn't like that at all. And if you pay attention to Sotheby's agent branding, It's always focused on Sotheby's. Um, and it seems like there's just inherent value in mentioning the brand name of Sotheby's. Uh, and so how have you been able to engender that value over your tenure at Sotheby's and hold firm to having agents be focused on the brand where other companies like KW have, have had to shy away from it?

Well, Eric does an excellent question. Um, and. You know, I think when we, you know, we entered into a license agreement with Sotheby's auction house, what 17 years ago, 2004. And that's when I kind of rejoined the, you know, the, you know, the, when we were starting it up. And, um, so I always thought we had this, you know, great responsibility. Um, you know, to obviously grow the business, you know, any business you've got to grow it. Uh, but I was really felt like we had to grow it. In a qualitative way. Um, and the worst thing we could do would be to dilute this 270 year old brand name. And so I had, you know, I had a lot, I felt a big, uh, deep responsibility. And I shared that with our team, as we hired people, you know, to protect the brand standards. Um, because you know, over the years I heard Sotheby's is really just an, is a function of the brand name and really the people that work there. So, you know, that's was always in my mind. And so when we started it, you know, we create identity standards. Um, any franchise system has that. But the important thing is, um, is you have to, you know, make sure that people comply with those standards. So, um, so I'm, I'm the first to say to people, Hey, Sotheby's International Realty may not be right for you. Um, we're, we're, you know, we're not necessarily all things to all people. Um, so, you know, I think. Part of that is, is that, you know, I wanted the consumer and this is a pretty big point here, Eric. We'd we, when we decided, when we started this, we decided that our client. Was going to be the consumer. Um, obviously the real estate agent is in the center of the transaction. Um, certainly not minimizing that, but, but we wanted the client, the buyer or the seller of the house. We wanted them to be our client. We wanted to resonate with them. We wanted our marketing to reach them. And the reason that we made that decision and I felt very strongly about it. Is that to the extent that we could, uh, I wanted to deliver to our agents and brokers, somewhat of a pre-sold brand. Now I'm not minimizing the competition out there, which is fierce, but if I could give our agents, and this is what I kept in mind, if I could give them, you know, an edge, you know, where that. Where they go in, make a competitive presentation and that client is somewhat predisposed to do business with Sotheby's International Realty and, and try to make their job a little bit easier. So I think, I think that that, you know, coupled with, you know, our diligence on making sure that the brand had consistency, the other thing we thought about. Uh, is, is really that again, that tying it back to the buyer, the seller, and in my mind, I, you know, I just visualized that we wanted them to have this same experience, whether they were buying a house in Sydney, Australia, or Auckland, New Zealand or Taiwan or Paris or London, or destined Florida or Orlando or Palm beach, we wanted them to. The see the same real estate sign, the same yard. We wanted them to see the same business card, the same format. Um, so that's hard to do, you know, when you have a business that, you know, for us now with over 20,000 sales associates, many of them are independent contractors, certainly in the United States, that's the case. So, you know, I think that. To whatever extent we've been successful. I think a lot of it is that consistency with the brand. And, you know, I meet with the auction house. Uh, the, see I was with the CEO recently and, you know, they're very, very complimentary of the business that we've developed, um, and the brand standards. Um, and so that gives me great pride that they have respect for what we've done.

And, and you should, uh, and at the risk of being very effusive about the Sotheby's brand, I've always been very impressed. How Sotheby's International Realty has held firm on that. I use the example in a presentation that I do. It's, it's called, uh, agents run a muck and, uh, I use examples of headshots and bad advertising that agents have done. Uh, and I have an example from many, many of the franchise brands that are out there. In fact, one of them, uh, the agent uses the phone number four, one six, punch me as their phone number. And I always cringe every time I see that yet. I've never cringed at that. Uh, anything that I've ever seen from any Sotheby's agent because of those brand standards that I feel like you guys have, have set. But I think there was something else that you alluded to there that's really important. I'd like to dig in on, um, you know, I bought a house last year from a scenic Sotheby's agent, uh, and, and her name was Sarah Timmins and Sarah. Mentioned to me, uh, after we started working together that, uh, how rigid the recruiting is at scenic Sotheby's, you don't pick up the phone and say, Hey, I want to be a scenic Sotheby's agent. They have to call you, uh, and, and, and talk to you. And then there's many meetings that happen. Um, is it, is it the brand. And the specifics that go along with that, that allows a brokerage like scenic Sotheby's to be selective in who they pick or is there more to it?

Well, I mean, I think there's more to it, Eric. I mean, it, it it's, you know, and, and I talk about that, um, because w was, you know, back to like the consumer, as I mentioned, the buyer or the seller, um, you know, and the notion that, you know, It, at least in my mind, I've tried to, you know, develop that, you know, where the brand is. Pre-sold a certain level of clientele. Um, and, and then therefore that, that whole process, um, you know, requires exceptional service. So, um, And that's. And I say that because the, you know, that's what, you know, people expect from Sotheby's International Realty, a client, they have, they have an expectation that they're going to get exceptional service, um, that holds true with the auction house as well. Um, and so. That's, you know, that's a big responsibility. And I talked to the companies before they join us, you know, uh, in my, you know, my affiliate, my franchise business. And, you know, it's kind of one of the first things that I talked to them about. And, and I'll, and I'll say to them, you know, are there times where you actually may have to. You know, re you know, I'm not suggesting rebuilding your company, but you do have to really think about it because this is not just some franchise you're joining. This is, this is something much different. Um, and there may be some agents in your company. That might not understand it. Um, and you know, frankly may never understand it. So, um, and so, you know, there may be times where you just have to part ways, so. So Eric, I mean, I could go through many companies that have joined us and they did have to disassociate some agents. Um, and because we do have the requirements that you're talking about, um, and not, not just the brand standards, but you know, the, the service and, and many of our companies are very focused on productivity, so per agent productivity. Um, and I think, you know, you can agree with. With me that, you know, the agents that the industry suffers a little bit with, you know, a lot of agents actually not doing, you know, much business. So, you know, that is a drain on our real estate company. Um, so I think many of our companies really are very focused on. You know, you know, not, not only having productive agents, but, but hiring agents, like the one you just mentioned in Destin, I think Sarah Timmins is newer to the business. Uh, but you know, They, they want to invest their time and, and Sarah's time into making her as productive as she possibly can. So, um, you know, I think it is part of our DNA. It's part of our culture. Um, and, um, you know, so I, I do think it's intentional, um, to your question.

And, and that I think is part of it, I think. Yeah. All too often in any brokerage and franchise networks that are out there, the brand is almost just there as a thing. Uh, but it's more about the agents, uh, than it is about the overall network and the brands. Yeah. Cheers to you for holding firm and, and, uh, not only the Britt and standards, but the agent standards, uh, and the, the standards of, of. Practice and what's provided to the individual consumer, uh, cause I've never heard anything other than the best, uh, about Sotheby's,

you know what what's interesting about my job, Eric, along these lines is, and it's really quite surprising, um, is that, you know, from time to time, obviously I'm going to get a letter. Complaining about something. Um, but, but I get more letters of appreciation about agents than I do complaints, which I think is probably quite unusual.

Yeah, that's a, and that is definitely the case of, of listening, caring, getting back to them. Uh, but it's, it's certainly seems that it's rare. I think anytime you run a business, you're going to have some percentage of people that are unhappy, no matter what or how hard you tried work. Um, you know, and certainly we've experienced that at Travis. Sometimes it's. It's just doesn't work out for whatever reason, but some people you

just can't please is what

juicy. Exactly. Exactly. Um, okay, so let's talk about the International side of Sotheby's International Realty. Uh, as I mentioned before, You guys have a presence around the globe, you're in 75 countries. Uh, and frankly you sell some of the most expensive real estate in the world. Um, you know, if you name a country, it seems like there's always a Sotheby's that's there. And, and frankly, like many Sotheby's agents, uh, I've actually taken my picture in front of a few Sotheby's offices around the world, including. Uh, the one in Monaco. Uh, I took my picture in front of back when you could travel a couple of years ago. I know you recently opened up in Oman, uh, as well now, obviously 2020 was a difficult year for lots of folks, but in real estate it was obviously a standout. How has it done around the world? Outside of just the United? Yeah.

Uh, Eric, you know, I talk about our international business, so. It's really been a labor of love for us. Um, just because, you know, we, our first deal, um, I don't. I think it was the, I think it was probably, um, Western Canada is neck and neck, either France or Western Canada. Um, and so our business model is we sell the rights. We have a long-term agreement. We sell the rights to either a country, part of a country or a province or territory. And so, um, you know, we started that early on. We always. We, we built Sotheby's International Realty to be from the very beginning to be an international company. So it was not an afterthought. Everything we did, we thought about how it would resonate internationally. Um, and there were a lot, there was a lot of extremely heavy lifting in the beginning, uh, particularly when we built our web, our global website, um, and the taxonomy involved, which is location, uh, orientation. And, you know, we had to go through so many different things, you know, uh, language translation. And so forth. So, uh, that's why I say it was a labor of love because it was, it's very complex because real estate is practiced differently in all these different countries. Um, and it's practiced differently, uh, even in different parts of the same country. Um, so, you know, we, we had to go through a bit of a learning curve ourselves. Um, but in the same time we built this really strong global referral system. Um, and you know, I'm, I'm very proud of, of what we've accomplished. So, um, but in some ways what's interesting is we're just kind of getting started with it. Um, because now we have this great opportunity to help our local companies, wherever they may be. We're we're now in a point where we can help them grow. Many of them are very, you know, significant already. Um, and then we've never had as strong of an International, we call servicing teams. So we we've broken the world into three regions, uh, Europe, middle East, Africa, and India. Um, Calla, which is the Caribbean, Latin America, Caribbean Bahamas, Bermuda. Uh, and then we have, you know, Asia, the Pacific rim APAC as we call it. And we have a team dedicated to those. Affiliated companies in each of the three regions. So in country, if you will, and we have a designated marketing director, a head of region, um, and an additional support people, uh, for each of the three regions. So that keeps us very close to the two. There are companies there, you know, I think the other difference, Eric, and this is. Probably not something everybody realizes, but most other real estate companies operate what they call a sub frame. So, um, the companies are free to sell offices to, to whomever they choose. So back to your. Standards question. Um, we actually don't allow that, um, it's, it's a, what we call direct franchise models. So we actually vet every owner of every office that's in our system. Um, you know, so, and I even, I meet I've met every, everybody. Um, so, um, I was one asterisk. There there's some people I haven't met in person because of COVID last year. But prior to that, I'd met every owner of every company internationally. Um, so, you know, I think that that. You know that business and, and our, our referral business globally was up 42% year over year in 2020. And that's a function of having a thousand offices, literally in the best locations around the world you happen to have been in Monaco. And that's obviously, you know, a, a very unique, uh, real estate environment as well. So, um, that's, uh, you know, certainly a landmark office for us right there.

And so, you know, I mean, obviously let's talk about COVID for just a second. You mentioned that you hadn't had a chance to meet some folks that, that came into the network, uh, because of that. Um, but you know, obviously markets like Italy, Spain, France, uh, these were. Markets where you have operations in and were hurt extensively and have not recovered in the real estate market nearly as well at, or as fast as what the United States has. Um, do you think that when we get back to traveling again, do you think that we'll see recovery in those markets, particularly in the luxury, you know, second, third, fourth home buyer market.

Yeah. You know, Eric, I mean, I, you know, like we did do, um, You know, I'm not sure if it was a record or not, but we did our company in France did a 2020, did do a billion dollars and, uh, and euros. So that's about 1.2 billion in sales volume. Um, out of their 54 offices, uh, in 2020, uh, 1.2 billion USD. So, and Italy, you know, given the wonderful markets that they're in, um, there was a similar situation where people were, you know, buying different properties, you know, uh, with space and the amenities that we were looking for. So, so, you know, it's, it was not across the board. Um, You know, slower to, to bounce back, uh, than the U S because we did have certainly some markets that, you know, outperformed, um, uh, you know, and even in Sydney, um, we did a billion dollars in Australia, you know, Australian dollars there in 2020 with some very high price point. Uh, houses, but you know, I do X, I know your question here is what the expectation is. Um, you know, going forward with, you know, post vaccine, you know, travel, coming back to some degree of normalcy. Um, and I think, I think we're already starting to see it, um, you know, with the year starting off strong, um, even International, um, uh, Sierra International numbers are up pretty significantly through February year, over year. Um, so, I mean, I do see it and I, I do expect that international travel back to the U S will be a positive, certainly in the real estate market as well. Um, I think cities like New York will, you know, I expect that they'll be, you know, continued, um, you know, activity and, and speaking of New York, you know, it's. Um, even though yet last year was a pretty tough year. I started seeing the market kind of healing PO when the vaccine was introduced. And then the last eight weeks in a row, they've been 30 deals or more over $4 million in, uh, New York city. So that's coming back. Um, and I think you'll start to see more international buyers coming back into the city as well.

That was actually a, exactly what my next question was. So thanks for leading into it. I was just going to ask how, how you're seeing New York, uh, do so that's, that's good to see it. It's coming back there.

Yeah. And then adding to that, Eric is that in the last week, the weekend, uh, March 22nd, there were 47 contracts signed in that four-plus million dollar category. And that the eight week streak, uh, is a streak not seen since 2006. Do you financial

crisis. Do you think that the strength is part of, because you know, that there were deals in the high-end space and finally, since things are opening back up, people are taking advantage of it or is this the same kind of process that you're seeing on those transactions where it's competitive bidding against each other and running the price up?

I, you know, I think what it is a little bit, is there some pent up demand here? Um, because the market was, you know, You know, was kind of shut down for a good period of time last year. So I think, I think we're seeing some pent up demand. Um, and, um, and I think it is people changing, you know, where they live. I mean, just within the city, you know, buying a different type of property, maybe with a patio or more outdoor space. And there's been a resurgence of townhomes sales as a result

also. Interesting. Um, so let's turn the attention to the opposite market for just a second. Obviously there was a flight to the suburbs, you know, obviously New York, you had everybody going out to the Hamptons or, or, uh, upstate and, and buying properties. And that tended to be the case all over. Where people went away from big cities. Uh, so, you know, obviously the luxury suburb markets have done extraordinarily well, uh, over the past year. But do you think they'll still be as strong in 2022? Or do you think that was demand that moved ahead and will it will end up slowing down?

Well, Eric, you know, I'm just, uh, you know, I don't. You know, I don't have a crystal ball, um, in terms of what the future will bring, but, you know, my sense is that, you know, The market has, was, you know, very strong, you know, particularly the third and fourth quarters of 2020. Um, but you know, I had a very strong first quarter of 2020, um, It was up 20% from the first quarter of 2019. And part of that was the momentum that we had in late the latter part of 19 going into 20. So as we think about it, you know, COVID kind of interrupted some momentum that we even had before. COVID. Um, so, um, yes, you know, no doubt people, you know, took this opportunity, working from home to buy another property that, you know, accommodated their needs, uh, for the time. Um, but. You know, I, I think the, this year has gotten off to a, uh, a very significant strong start, so, um, I'm expecting it to continue. Um, and, um, you know, I think the only thing that would, would hold it back, you know, is the challenge with inventory. Um, and so, you know, and, and part of the inventory challenge is just the fact that properties are being sold in such a short period of time. So, um, you know, the months of supply, um, is going down just because of the, you know, the absorption rate that demand is so high.

I have a friend that studies this and in some markets around the country, the, he seemed a supply that's under two weeks, uh, which is just unheard of, uh, before. So, um, yeah, I mean, that, that makes a lot of sense. And obviously, you know, nobody has a crystal ball, but hearing from somebody like yourself that, that. Has felt this for 40 years, I always feel like there's an intuition there, um, that, you know, you bring to the table with that level of experience. So thanks for your thoughts there. Um, let's turn our attention to us, uh, compass for just a second. So obviously I know compass is a big competitor, uh, in many of your markets, you know, we were just talking about New York and the suburbs of New York. Obviously that's a big market and their home base for them. Uh, and I know that some of your franchisees have lost big. Big agents to them, uh, in the past few years where compass has stepped in and said, Hey, we'll write you a check for half a million dollars. If you come over and join us. Um, so I'm interested to get your take on how you view compass, uh, as a competitor in your space and what you think their short and long-term prospects are.

Yeah. You know, I think Eric, I mean, I'm always, we're always open to, you know, honest competition in the industry and, and, you know, our, our brand takes that seriously. You know, I have a little bit different view on it, um, which is, you know, I think compass in a way, um, has made me, uh, It has made me better. Um, you know, because it's, it's made me better in terms of, you know, retaining our agents and, and re and recruiting other agents. We have very high retention rate, uh, at Sotheby's International Realty. Um, particularly with our 45 company owned offices. It's it it's, you know, It's, it's a very high retention rate, um, for our top producers, which I'm very proud of. Um, so, you know, I, again, I think competition, if it's honest and open, you know, makes you better. Um, and I think, you know, we've gotten. It's Sotheby's International Realty, even more skillful at retaining our top brokers and recruiting others. Yes, no doubt. We've lost some agents to compass. We've recruited some agents from compass and we have agents that have come back to us, uh, from compass, uh, one most recently, Simon Beardmore. In our Brentwood office in Los Angeles. Um, so, you know, we, we do have those positive stories. Um, and you know, when I think about, you know, something like that, I do reflect back on what we talked about earlier, which is our global footprint and our referral network. Um, You know, that's pretty hard to replicate, uh, 75 countries, you know, with, with partners in all those countries that are opening offices. Like the one you mentioned, which is being open really we're announcing it. Um, you know, this week in Oman and muscato the capital of Oman. So, um, So that, you know, that's, that's not easy for somebody to, you know, compete with, um, that kind of scale and size and the quality of the companies that are part of Sotheby's International Realty. So that's the way I view it. Um,

Let me, let me ask you one more question kind of about that. And, and frankly, since we've been recording this, this podcast here on March 31st, I actually got a flash across my computer that Compass's IPO and the amount of money that they were, uh, planning on raising. Just got dropped by about 30% due to a lack of demand. And I know compass has been, uh, you know, there's, they're, they're been trying to pitch this concept that they're really a tech company and they're not, we'll stay company. They're a tech company that happens to sell real estate, uh, not vice versa. And so from that perspective, you know, as the leader of Sotheby's, uh, and that competes with them, you know, do you think there's any. Real estate brokerage company that's out there that's a tech company. Or do you think that it's just that kind of statement that they've been making for the past few years is more or less a, uh, a statement to raise money at a tech company valuation.

Well, you know, Eric, I mean, I think to answer your question, I mean, all of the big companies have, you know, have technology. Um, and so I don't, you know, you know, just competing on that basis. Um, I don't think is going to get you that far, particularly in the luxury space. I mean, Sotheby's International Realty has been very innovative. I think one of the reasons we were successful in 2020 as we had, we had gone to a virtual options like 10 years ago, um, you know, 3d, uh, images of houses, uh, augmented reality. I mean, even we were innovative with the introduction of video for properties, uh, over 10 years ago. Um, so, you know, I, I think. You know, we may not sell our story there as well as others. But, um, I think, you know, if you talk to our agents, they're going to say that those things help them get through 2020 in a significant way, with respect to, you know, the technology with the other, other companies, you know, I can't speak to it specifically. Um, but I do know one thing Eric, about the luxury market and, you know, technology is one thing, but you know, buyers and sellers of, of expensive properties, you know, they want to deal directly with somebody, you know, they're, they're, they're not going to just, you know, use an app. Um, you know, to buy a $10 million house. I mean, you know, they're, they're going to want to have a personal relationship with that agent. I mean, these are big purchases that require a lot of work. Um, you know, and, you know, technology is not going to sell that house. Now it's going to help them look for properties. Um, and you know, they can rule things out, uh, But, you know, the whole buying and selling process, which we'd like to make, you know, a lot simpler and we're working on that, but, uh, still requires a lot of, you know, human touch is what I'm getting

at. And, and I've said for a long time, um, this is my 21st year in this business. And obviously I'm now the CEO of a large technology company in real estate, but I've long said that technology is there in the real estate world to bring. A personal touch, uh, to an impersonal medium by connecting with the realtor. In fact, my best friend growing up, her dad was the COO of Edward Jones. And I've always had this concept in real estate that it should be more like Edward Jones and less like E-Trade. And there's always an opportunity for E-Trade to exist. And there will always be demand for companies like E-Trade, but in real estate, Um, the ones that are successful over the long run and that can command higher price points are the ones that have a, that nature of Edward Jones, where they sit down and meet with you. And I think, um, you know, what Sotheby's brings to the table is a lot lightweight, a lot like that, but I have to ask you at least one or two tech questions here, and you kind of alluded to them, right? Um, so, you know, obviously Sotheby's, you mentioned, uh, and I actually pre wrote a question about this, but, uh, yeah. You know, your jump into video and virtual tours and, and I know that you were on the forefront of AR uh, with your collaboration, with Rumi on, um, the curate app. So. You know, how, how much do you think those helped achieve your goals during COVID and connecting with consumers without them even buying a house? Like, or without them having seen the house before buying it? Like I did.

Yeah. Eric, I mean, I think, I think what's interesting and I just, this is kind of noteworthy because you know, a lot of the nicest places in the world are hard to get to. Um, and I'm not suggesting they're overly hard to get to, but you know, parts of the Rocky mountains, you know, they may not have an airport nearby parts of the Caribbean, you know, that may or may not have direct flights. So what I'm getting at is, is many of our agents and brokers have had to kind of prepare themselves to work somewhat. Virtually even before the pandemic, I'll give you an example. Uh, we have a great company in the Dominican Republic, um, in the castle D'Acampo area. Uh, Sergio Locke is, is, is the owner's name. Um, and he, he, even before COVID, uh, required all of his agents to do a 3d. Um, Matterport scan of each of their listings. So a buyer from wherever, uh, could actually kind of almost make an offer sight unseen. Um, I'm not, you know, advocating that because I think people should go look at the properties before they buy them, but that technology lends itself to that. Um, so. I think that we were well-prepared there. Um, and you know, you mentioned cure rate, which is augmented reality, which helps you stage a house, um, virtually. And that was also very helpful. And we saw, you know, big adoption rates during COVID for both of these, um, you know, technology applications. So, um, and then I really can't under. You know, score enough, you know, just, you know, good photography, which we've always advocated, um, high resolution, photograph photography, and then video. So we were very early in, um, adopting video, having it be available on our website. And it's one of the reasons where, you know, one of the highest viewed real estate companies on, on YouTube and Instagram.

So, you know, we're running out of time here and I have 10 more questions. I wish I could ask you, but I'm gonna distill it down to a couple more, uh, that are here. So. You know, as many listeners know, uh, to the show and, and Philip, most of our listeners are either leaders of brokerage companies or, or real estate technology companies, uh, or staff members of brokerage companies. And so many of the listeners know, I regular quote, my friend, Steve Murray, uh, provided this stat a couple of years ago. And he said that in a good year, The average broker brokerage makes just a 3% profit margin and I've joked a lot and said that there's a reason why, uh, they're called brokers. Um, but it lasts review, you know, Sotheby's has kind of bucked that trend Sotheby's International Realty has bucked that trend. And, you know, last I heard Sotheby's is really the standout in terms of profitability. So to kind of sum up everything we've talked about, um, do you think it's the brand that. Brings that profitability. Do you think it's the consumer, do you think it's the luxury buyer, um, or, or the combination of everything that you guys bring to the table that helps you command? Um, that level of profitability that's above what the average brokerage makes?

Um, you know, in my view, it, it's, it's a number of things, you know, certainly the brand I'm going to, you know, say, you know, and I, I think. We just have a very strong culture at Sotheby's International Realty. Um, but we've been very fortunate Eric, to, you know, bring into our, you know, our, our overall company, you know, some of the best real estate operators and in the world. Um, and you know, they know how to run a business. Um, and you know, and we're very careful about. You know, the operators that become part of the network because it's going to be a long-term relationship. And so, you know, I have great respect, you know, for. The operators of our, you know, franchise companies, um, and you know, and our company owned business, uh, as well, the 45 offices in 12 markets. But I think if you, you know, if you look at the recent real trends, you mentioned Steve Murray wrench. If you look at the recent real trends, 500. Uh, top brokerages Sotheby's International Realty has a pretty significant number in the top 100. So, you know, very proud of that, that we've been able to grow the business. But like I said earlier, we've been able to scale it, but we've been able to protect the brand at the same time. Um, and you know, one of our chief metrics that we look at is our average sales price, which is, you know, I can't really say the exact number, but, you know, it's, it's one of the highest of any, I mean, it's the highest of any national real estate brand, uh, that is in the franchise space.

Certainly, well, we're out of time here, but I always ask all of my guests one last question and I ask everybody the same question, cause I love getting their answer, uh, and kind of comparing everybody's answers to this question. And that last question I always ask is if you could change anything, you know, looking back at your 40 year career in this business, if you could change any one thing about real estate, either in the past or at present, what would that one thing be?

Well, I mean, I think the one thing that if I had to go back in and change something, um, you know, that's a pretty tough question for me. Um, you know, but I, I think my immediate answer would be, you know, It would, it would be something along the lines of, you know, helping new real estate agents become successful and, uh, you know, in a shorter period of time, um, help helping them understand how to get in the business. Uh, you know, I try to do as good a job as we can, you know, mentoring everyone, uh, and providing that type of level of training. Um, so I mean, I think if the industry could have done, I mean, they've done a good job of training agents, but I think, and I mentioned this earlier, um, I think, I think one thing that made. You know, diminished that in the eyes of the consumer, the real estate industry is that they're still, even though they're over a million realtors in the country, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's the 80 20 rule. And, um, you know, I think if I could change something, I would, I would. I would create higher standards, uh, you know, for, for agents. Um, and so that, you know, we'd have, you know, we'd be viewed as, and I'm not suggesting we're not viewed this way, but in a, in a professional away as possible. Um, I think if I had to change something, it would be something along those lines, you know? Really focused on focusing on per person productivity, making sure the industry, you know, maintained a, a threshold level, uh, for an agent.

You know, Philip you're now at least the third person from the top of my memory here, the third CEO of an organization, a top level organization that has mentioned the exact same thing, uh, about that. And some have mentioned mentorships as being required, um, or apprenticeships, um, or other, you know, requirements of getting in there, uh, to make sure that the standards. Uh, are held up too. So maybe there's something there. Maybe, maybe we need to do a, a tribes round table of CEO executives, uh, of companies and say, Hey, how can we, how can we raise the bar? Uh, and the space? Cause it seems like everybody's on board. So we'll Philip. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's absolutely been my pleasure to have you on the show. And you've been listening to Philip White. He's the president and CEO of Sotheby's International Realty. You're been listening to brokerage, insider the podcast where we interviewed the leaders in real estate and technology. Make sure you subscribe to our show so you can get this episode as well as every other episode we do in the future, every single Monday delivered right to your device. Thanks everybody for listening. Thank

you.